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After 226 performances of Turandot, soprano Lise Lindstrom is no stranger to revisiting iconic roles with renewed curiosity and excitement. This month’s performances at The Metropolitan Opera are no different, as she takes on the demanding role of the Dyer’s Wife in Die Frau ohne Schatten. Midway through the run, we were excited to hear from Lise as she shared her at times unconventional path to this repertoire, her approach to revisiting repeat roles, and her advice to fellow singers on embracing uncertainty and staying true to their unique artistic journeys. She also offered valuable insights on how she controls her own nerves, encouraging singers to shift their mindset from fear to excitement. By the end of our conversation, we were left feeling inspired and empowered, ready to embrace our own journey of self-discovery.
Gretchen Krupp 00:00
Today, we have Lise Lindstrom with us, who is an amazing dramatic soprano. Roles include Turandot to SentaElektra and Brünnhilde. Has graced the stages of the Metropolitan Opera, San Francisco, Deutsche Opera Berlin, Wiener Staatsoper, Royal Opera Garden, just to name a few. And you are currently in the MET's production of Die Frau ohne Schatte and fresh off of your full Ring Cycle with the Dallas symphony. So pretty impressive credits!
Lise Lindstrom 00:32
Thank you for having me. I'm so honored to join you today!
Gretchen Krupp 00:35
Of course, it's a pleasure. Thank you. My name is Gretchen, and I'm part of the support team at Stagetime, but I'm also a singer myself. I had the privilege of seeing you last week. I was in New York for a number of auditions, and I was able to catch Frau Last Saturday.
Lise Lindstrom 00:51
Oh, good. You got a good one.
Gretchen Krupp 00:53
It was terrific. What a production.
Lise Lindstrom 00:55
I mean, they're all good, but the performance was pretty great that day.
Gretchen Krupp 00:59
It was, it was really special. So with that being said, we really wanted to focus on your journey as a singer into this dramatic repertoire, because large number of our database, they are singers. So I think that they would really appreciate anything you have to say, and just kind of how you've come to sing this tremendous repertoire. I mean, I personally think it's some of the best there is.
Lise Lindstrom 01:24
Me too.
Gretchen Krupp 01:25
Yeah, and then that being said, so the role of the Dyer's Wife is certainly considered to be one of the most challenging for the dramatic soprano. When did you start studying some of these larger roles?
Lise Lindstrom 01:39
Well, I guess what I would say first and foremost is I have a very unconventional pathway to this repertoire. And not unlike probably a lot of the people on the the platform, people didn't know what to do with my instrument. I didn't know what to do with my instrument. I knew I wanted to be a singing actor, and I had always wanted to do that. I studied a lot of things before, and I think my parents were all really hoping that those would pan out, and they didn't.
Lise Lindstrom 02:16
And it took a long time for me to sort of, I mean, for things to fall on my path. Quite literally,I was more of a lyric soprano. I sang a few, well actually only one, Donna Anna, and then a sort of a few of the Fior de Lici, which was great for me. I've enjoyed it very, very much, and really the start of my sense of being an actor on stage. But then when I tried to do auditions for young artist programs and apprentice programs and things like that, I mean, it's not anyone's really fault, it's just I didn't know what to do with my voice truly.I could handle it in pieces, sort of in bits and parts. And I had my natural gift of the height, because I've sort of always had good high notes, thank the heavens. But I really, it took years. So then when, when the first Turandot was offered to me that, I mean, that there's a whole saga about all of that for which I'm eternally grateful, but that was the beginning for me. And I mean, pretty great beginning, a little bit unconventional, but it really changed my whole understanding of what I was capable of.
Lise Lindstrom 03:51
And from there, the world really shifted. I'd never considered myself this rep, this Fauci, this repertoire. I thought maybe the biggest thing I would ever sing would be an Elsa in Lohengrin. But I never, I really. I loved this music. I saw Turandot as a young child, and just was like, oh my god, it's amazing. And then even in the 2000s when I saw, I was fresh out of grad school, and I saw this, the production I'm in now, the Frau ohne Schatten at the Met. And I was like, oh my god, how do those ladies do that? I never, for once, put those two things together like I would eventually be doing it.
Lise Lindstrom 04:33
So, I mean, I don't know the advice that I have the most sort of kernel of the kernel, I could possibly say, would be listen to your instrument, listen to your body as you're trying to find your physical alignment to sing, and really things will make themselves clear, and hopefully find some teachers and coaches that support you on that.
Lise Lindstrom 05:08
I mean, I don't think I'm a traditional dramatic soprano. I would never, ever even dare to say that. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I'm not a Gwyneth Jones, I'm not a Birgit Nilsson, I'm not an Astrid Varnay, I'm not an Eva Martin. I don't have that sound. I know that. I'm not deluded, but I have enough cut and steel in my voice to get over 100 plus size orchestra. I've got high notes for days so that I can carry those Strauss lines or those Wagnerian lines, and there's enough steel in my voice to carry the heroic parts, you know, Puritans or Opera Files. You know, sofa-based commentators may not be buying what I'm selling, but that's okay. You know, we all have our own taste.
Gretchen Krupp 06:01
Absolutely. I mean, it sounds like you, you definitely have such a strong sense of self, and that makes perfect sense why it's allowed you to succeed in this repertoire.
Lise Lindstrom 06:12
Well, that's been a journey. It's been a hard fought, hard one, self identification journey and the brilliance about being an artist is that there is no one like us. There's no you know, there's no one like you. There's no one like me. There's that great quote that my dear friend Jake Hecky has on all of his taglines from his email is, "Be yourself. Everyone else is taken." And that's from Oscar Wilde. So it's not just clever, it's the actual truth.Really be yourself, and art should have room for everyone's expression. We should not be attempting to sound like Astrid Varnay or Birgit Nilsson as dramatic sopranos. We should be striving to sound like ourselves.
Gretchen Krupp 07:00
Totally, and the rest will fall into place.
Lise Lindstrom 07:03
Hopefully.
Gretchen Krupp 07:04
Hopefully,
Lise Lindstrom 07:04
If you're lucky, like I have been. Yeah.
Gretchen Krupp 07:07
Yeah, so that being said, back to Frau. So this is a role that you've performed previously.
Lise Lindstrom 07:15
Yes, I have, yeah.
Gretchen Krupp 07:17
So how do you revisit something like, how do you revisit an old role? Because it's certainly like, the hope is that you never learn it with bad muscle memory, but of course, like, sometimes we just get through it the first time and then the next time we try to improve it a bit more. So like, what's your process for, for revisiting a role like that?
Lise Lindstrom 07:38
Well, I mean, I don't know how much Strauss, if any Strauss, you've ever sung, but I can tell you, yeah, you sort of never, you never feel like you know it all the way. You sort of never feel at least, I certainly don't, and I don't think any of my colleagues, I don't think Nina or Elza ever take it for granted that they've got it just in their back pocket. These are roles that are so complicated and so challenging from every perspective, not just technical, but that is one of the biggest perspectives, is technically challenging. So, when you revisit a role like this you have to go back to the very basics. I go back right to the score, I go back to my practice tapes. I go back to the piano. I test my notes, I test my note memory, because that always slides as you get into performance. You know, you start singing a B flat instead of a B natural, or you start singing a D flat instead of a B if it's in the chord, you know. And so you might be led by your ear if you don't have perfect pitch, which I certainly don't. So it's important to take away any varnish that came from the last performance period and go exactly to the nuts and bolts.
Lise Lindstrom 08:52
And I think singers are...I love singers. I love singers so much because we are such special unicorns in the world in general, but in the world of art as well. We have these incredibly mathematic, mathematical minds that love to sort of figure out the chemistry of the notes that we're singing. Why do they fit in the in the phrase?Why am I singing it that like that? Why is it a forte and not a piano? You know, we love all the chemistry, the organic chemistry of the thing. And so it's important to go back to that and reestablish one's fascination with the entry of that role, the beginnings of that role. And then, you hopefully get a chance to have a rehearsal period, and you have a great musical staff that's going to say, "Oh, by the way, Ms Lindstrom, that's a C sharp, not a C natural." You're like, you're right. I know that. Thank you. You know, it's that kind of a thing it is, and then, of course, the layering of character and the layering of of expression.
Lise Lindstrom 10:04
And, you know, I've sung 226 performances of Turandot.
Gretchen Krupp 10:14
Wow!
Lise Lindstrom 10:16
A lot. And that means that you have to keep asking yourself questions as you're going. Why am I saying this now in Questa Reggia? What do I mean today, today, at this time, in this place, with these people? It's a chemical spontaneity that has to happen in the room with repeat, repeat roles. You can't and if you're lucky, you get to repeat roles, because there's nothing like revisiting a person that you've been before and finding new nooks and crannies, new psychologies, new philosophies, new phrasings, new colors for all of those notes. There is nothing more satisfying than coming off stage and thinking, "Gosh, I never did that before. That was exciting." So that's the eventual goal, to then get in the flow state so well that you're asking or talk, you know, there's, there's a constant synergy in your own head as you're going through the process of seeing the role.
Gretchen Krupp 11:25
That makes sense.
Lise Lindstrom 11:26
Thrilling.
Gretchen Krupp 11:27
So would you say that, like constant sense of discovery is your favorite part of revisiting a role?
Lise Lindstrom 11:33
Absolutely.
Gretchen Krupp 11:34
Yeah, that makes sense, and it keeps it fresh dramatically too. So you're engaged too, because, you know, you do something over and over again, it can become rote, but that's so not why we do this.
Lise Lindstrom 11:49
Well, in that, I think, is where we fall down a little bit, because we like things that are predictable. Everybody does, everybody. You know, taking risks and chances and being brave are great ideas, but they're not always comfortable. And really, the freedom that comes from, okay, I've got my technique in my back pocket. I know that I'm going to be able to navigate X, Y or Z. You know, maybe I'm not feeling 100% I've got, I've had a cold for a week, and I had to cancel a performance the other day. You know, okay, so maybe not all, all of the things are going to be as predictable as they have been in the past. That means also my role can't be as predictable. You know, we can't be fixed. We, we cannot, even our technique cannot be fixed. It has to be this constant evolution of who we are, how it's working today because, let's face it, it never works the same in any given day. I mean, any given day. You can have ideas about, okay, well, my high C is going to sort of feel like that. And it usually sort of does feel like that, but I can't predict it. I can't determine it. I can't make it go there.
Gretchen Krupp 13:12
Which part of the process would you say is the hardest? That part, perhaps like dealing with what voice and what body you have that day?
Lise Lindstrom 13:21
Surfing the sidewalk. You know, if a sidewalk is like undulating underneath you and just not freaking out, not losing hope or trust or grounding, just being like, yep, that's what it is today. Keep going. Just keep going. You know?
Gretchen Krupp 13:36
Yeah.
Lise Lindstrom 13:36
It's just keep swimming.
Gretchen Krupp 13:38
Just keep swimming. Great advice from Dory.
Lise Lindstrom 13:41
That's right, Dory knew what she was talking about.
Gretchen Krupp 13:44
On that note then, I mean, you sing on some of the biggest stages of the world, surely you get nervous. How do you control those nerves?
Lise Lindstrom 13:53
You know, years ago, I had an amazing experience. I was here in New York. I was doing, maybe it was this time of year. It was like four auditions a day, you know. And some of them I already knew in my head, they would never, like, not even pay attention to me, and I would be paralyzed with anxiety, as I would be. I remember walking to the subway and going down the subway, and I was like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have worn this, and maybe I shouldn't start with that. I just, I just, I don't know what I should start with and what if they don't, you know, what if I'm not... And I thought, gosh, this feeling feels so right next door to excitement. So being nervous and being excited, one has a dolly downer on it, and the other one has a world of possibilities on it. And I thought, why not just flip over to the other side, be excited and not know what they're going to think and not need to know what they're going to think, why don't I flip over there?
Lise Lindstrom 15:02
So, when I am nervous, I try to do that as often as I can, and be like, I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen. I can't control the outcome, but I can control me right now and get flipped over into more of a world of possibility than trying to predict the bad stuff that's going to happen. So it's, I mean, everything I do with singing is a mental act. I mean, it's all about harnessing the power of my mind, all of it, and then my heart gets to pour into it, because I've, I've got this settled.
Gretchen Krupp 15:45
That makes sense. I actually just did my first Fricka with Greer Grimsley back. Yeah, it was in the Atlanta production.
Lise Lindstrom 15:53
Oh, fantastic!I
Gretchen Krupp 15:53
In Siegfried. I'm based in Atlanta. I'm really excited for it.
Lise Lindstrom 15:54
Oh my gosh. So Gretchen we'll meet in person!
Gretchen Krupp 15:55
Yes, I'm looking forward to it. But obviously I was nervous doing my first Fricka so young, but I asked Greer, I'm like Greer, what do you do when you're nervous? And he said, I just lean further into the scene, like you just allow yourself to dig deeper, and it's just that mental flip the switch where you just have to control where your mind is going to go and then just trust the rest to fall into place.
Lise Lindstrom 16:28
That's absolutely, that's 100% right. I mean, lean in to the place you don't know how it's going to end, because, of course, anxiety is predicting how it's going to end. Yes, but anxiety is all about. Anxiety is all about putting a box around a situation and saying, you are so screwed it isn't going to go well. I mean, and then trying to battle that. I mean, if you're battling the box, you might as well just go home and take a nap. But, if you can flip into the side of, I actually don't know, but I do know that I've studied my face off. I do know that I love singing it. I do know that I'm surrounded by colleagues that love and support me. And even if any of those factors aren't true, maybe I didn't have enough study time, maybe you aren't surrounded by lovely colleagues, and maybe you don't love the piece, but you love you. And then there's the thing of, I'm not going to let me down. I'm going to see what I can bring to this, no matter what the other factors are.
Gretchen Krupp 17:30
Totally I love that.
Lise Lindstrom 17:33
Well done. You. That's a big
Gretchen Krupp 17:37
Thank you. I look forward to revisiting it and, you know, kind of repeating a role. I feel like I've got the first time out of the way, and I'm excited to dive even deeper into it, yeah, and rediscover a lot of stuff too. I mean, that's, that's the joy of it.
Lise Lindstrom 17:52
Oh man, you will just love you'll love it because the first time you put on, it's like, trying on shoes
Gretchen Krupp 17:59
Yeah.
Lise Lindstrom 18:00
First time you put them on, you're like, oh my god, I love them, but they're a little tight
Gretchen Krupp 18:04
Right.
Lise Lindstrom 18:05
I'm not sure how they're going to wear. Like, am I going to be able to spend the whole day in these? I'm not really sure. And then you wear them for a season, you're like, they're pretty good, I'm not really sure. And then the next year, or, like, winter boots, you put them on, and again, you're like, oh my god, these are the best ever. These are the perfect fit, and it just gets better and better and more of you, and life gives you more, and you put more into it. It is the coolest thing ever.
Gretchen Krupp 18:32
Absolutely looking forward to putting on those winter boots.
Lise Lindstrom 18:35
Yay! Poor Fricka, I didn't mean to call her a winter boot, but there you go.
Gretchen Krupp 18:39
You know, I like it. It's fitting for this time of the year too. Any other general advice you would like to give our database or users. Anything? Closing remarks.
Lise Lindstrom 18:52
Closing remarks. It takes a lot of courage to be a singer. It also takes a certain amount of masochism to be a singer.
Gretchen Krupp 19:04
I totally agree.
Lise Lindstrom 19:06
And I think if we can, I mean, every, everyone stands on the previous generation's shoulders. So if you all could stand on my shoulders and take some of my courage and just have that be yours, that would mean that all those years of struggle of mine were worthwhile. I would love that, because there is no one, nothing, nowhere that is worth self doubt, self destruction, power plays in in voice studios or coachings or auditions that tear your integrity or your heart out. There's just no room for that. Because you're, if you're endeavoring to be a singing actor, you're saying, I'm gonna open up my heart and my soul and stand on stage in front of a room full of strangers and let music come through me. And that's 100% worthy. So again, I'm a big proponent of the journey of the self. Love yourself. Find yourself. Define yourself. Change your mind. Redefine yourself. Keep going. Rinse and repeat.
Gretchen Krupp 20:41
That's fantastic advice. Thank you so much, Lise.
Lise Lindstrom 20:44
My pleasure.
Gretchen Krupp 20:45
We're so lucky to have you here today.
Lise Lindstrom 20:47
Thank you. It is such a pleasure to be with you, and I can't wait to meet you in person.
Gretchen Krupp 20:51
Yeah, looking forward to it. It's a great production. I can't wait to see how they bring the whole cycle together.
Lise Lindstrom 20:57
I can't either, yeah, very excited!
SHORT TRANSCRIPT
0:00 Introduction
1:39 Lise discusses her early career
7:17 Lise discusses her approach to revisiting repeat roles
13:44 Lise on how she controls her nerves and what advice she would give to singers
18:39 Closing remarks
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